defied the king. we didn't negotiate and compromise with the king, we defied the emperors, we are patriots, we are braveheart. we need to ride into that battlefield and chop their heads off in november. >> of course, nugent's attendance was far from guaranteed, given his sooth-saying at last year's conference. >> if barack obama becomes the president in november again, i will either be dead or in jail. >> this year, president obama is still president, but ted nugent remains on the loose. nugent isn't the only fortune teller. nra oracle, wayne lapierre also had his predictions, at last year's big gun bash. >> we know if president obama gets a second term, america as we know it will be on its way to being lost forever. >> america may not be lost forever, but it is changing. since the last nra convention, moviegoers were gunned down in

aurora, colorado, months later, 26 children and adults were killed at sandy hook elementary. and since that december morning in newtown, at least 3,819 people have been killed by guns in america. in the intervening months, the change that has happened has happened slowly and in small steps. it has happened discreetly and at the local level. republican senator kelly ayotte returned home this week. and at every town hall she's held, she's faced a grilling by her constituents about her vote against universal background checks. >> i really don't understand -- it doesn't make sense to me, what is wrong with universal background checks? >> okay, thank you, john. >> i will tell you in terms of a universal background check, as it's been framed, i have a lot of concerns about that leading to a registry. that will create a privacy situation for lawful firearms owners. >> ayotte's conspiracy theory

regarding a national gun registry is best refuted by the actual bill. which would have made the storage of gun records a felony. with a 15-year prison sentence. the absurdity of ayotte's reasoning was even apparent to senate zealot ted cruz, who last month told talking points memo, that i don't disagree that on its face the current legislation does not purport to create a national gun registry. the change in attitudes is even more apparent. >> i would like to thank you, so much for your vote on the manchin/toomey background check. >> so if the fear-mongering isn't as effective as it was once, what is the nra to do? no doubt this weekend's conference will leave the gun lobby feeling emboldened. it is worth noting the guys on the other side of the aisle is feeling pretty confident, too. >> the last time we had major gun legislation it took six, seven, eight tries to get

passed. things happen somewhat slowly in washington. but this is just the first round. >> joining me today, senior national correspondent for bloomberg business week, josh greene. national political reporter at the "washington post," nia malika henderson. political editor and white house correspondent for the the "huffington post" and an msnbc contributor, sam stein, and editor in chief of buzz feed, ben smith. josh, i want to ask you first, working as you do for bloomberg news, emphasis on the bloomberg. michael tomasky says effectively the vote hardly, a blow to president obama or the democratic party, it accomplished a lot, he writes. it pulled a few bricks loose from the wall. next time, that wall just might crumble. what do you make of that? >> i think that's right. for a decade and a half, democrats is abandoned the issue of guns. if you remember back to last october during the second town hall debate. a questioner asked president obama his stance on gun control and his answer was virtually

indistinguishable from president obama's. so the issue as a national political issue is really only kicked off since the newtown shootings. the fact that it failed is disappointing. but you see that momentum, it hasn't gone away. even after the toomey low pressure manchin bill was tabled and there's been progress at the state level even since then. i think it's an issue that's here to stay. >> sam, i will say for one, the ppp polling came out at the beginning of the week showing dropping approval ratings, we don't know what the causeality is exactly between whether that's directly correlated to votes on toomey/manchin. but there is new polling out yesterday, asking voters directly the impact of kay hagen's vote to support gun reform or against gun reform and mary landrieu's gun vote. 44% said they were more likely to support mary landrieu. 26% said they were less likely to support her. kay hagen, 52% were more likely to support her because of her stance on gun reform and 26% said they were less likely to

support her. which is to say, this thing has some legs. people have gone back to their home states and they seem to be getting positive feedback for voting on something that is contrary to nra principles. >> john mccain got i think 19 roses or something like that from a mother thanking him for the vote, a victim of the gabrielle giffords shooting. thanking him for his vote. poll numbers are more important than roses to these people. the only bit of caution i would have is the percentage of people less likely to vote. the conventional wisdom has always been that those people are much more active politically. much more inclined to vote on the gun issue specifically, than the people who are pro gun control, who are more likely to vote. so we have to see if that intensity is a momentary thing, just because the drama of the gun debate hasn't worn off or if it can be prolonged. we have a lot of time until the next election. if they bring this back up it will create a whole other set of issues.

>> they have to turn that on their head if they want to get this bill passed. >> so two things are happening in addition to the feedback that these guys are getting at the state level, nia. is biden has announced a renewed push to take this on the road. and he's been the sort of flag-bearer for gun safety legislation. he says he's going to new hampshire, not coincidentally an early primary state. we're not going to get into all that he's going to keep the message alive, as only joe biden can. the other thing what's happening on the state level in terms of governors of states, maryland, colorado, passing their own pretty stringent gun safety laws. david keene, departing nra president, told, spoke to what the nra's next steps might be. he said as we are likely to win most of the legislative battles in congress, we will have to move to the courts to undo the restrictions placed on gun owners' rights in new york, connecticut, maryland and colorado. that seems to be the next front.

>> that's right. i will say biden has said he's going to have this new push, apparently he hasn't told the president yet. at some point -- >> in the way that only joe biden can do that. >> they'll have those conversations. but, no, i think this is great movement at the state level, the nra's expert at going to the courts and challenging this, they challenged the brady bill, but you know, it is going to be a state-by-state thing. you see for instance in arizona, while john mccain got those roses. do you have a situation in arizona, where they just passed a law that said gun buyback programs, it would be illegal to melt down those guns. they would have to -- >> thank you, jan brewer, scorpion eater and governor jan brewer. >> that's right. but if you look at somebody like kelly ayotte, you look at somebody like heidi height camp. kelly ayotte doesn't have a shot at running for senate until then. these are states that have very low crime rates.

new hampshire has the lowest crime rate in the state. north dakota as well. so this argument that these new laws would keep their citizens safe, they just don't have the same sort of legs and resonance that you would have in a state like illinois, a state like maryland, a state like colorado. >> gun laws have always been geographical, what works in wyoming won't work in illinois, for instance. so while the nra is correct to gloat about their powers of persuasion in congress, the record is pretty clear on that. i think they have a little bit more tougher task he they're going into maryland to try to do something. >> can you see how the national policies have changed. in the sense that biden is out there happy to talk about this. this is is an issue the democrats wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole for years. now there's talk that harry reid may reintroduce the bill to force republicans to vote on it again. there was a thought that max baucus could flip now that he's retiring or some guys could find an excuse to switch their votes. harry reid is happy to vote on this ten times. they have a sense that the politics of it --

>> they can there dpofore -- >> they were shocked to discover it wasn't as toxic as they initially thought. that's the thing. >> i wonder, pat toomey and the president made the case this week that reason certain republicans voted against the bill is because it would be seen as a victory for the president. i tend to think that this is sort of bigger than just the president. as it becomes more you know, as more constituents speak out and as the sort of battle lines are less directly correlated to 1600 pennsylvania avenue, i think that opens up some room. i guess i would take some issue that this is a distinctly a referendum -- >> i think toomey and ayotte are examples of attention that republicans are going to have to deal with with. toomey supported this is because pennsylvania has a large gun population. ayotte is also from a state that doesn't have a kind of absolutist stance on gun control. i think she's looking at a possible, maybe a vice president role in 2016. doing something to help her

status within the national gop. but remember as ben said, this is a big deal issue for democrats now. especially among the rising class of 2016 hopefuls like o'malley and kwcuomo. >> it keeps it obama coalition engaged. young folks, blacks, latinos, women, suburban women particularly. going into 2014, the more they can keep this front and center for democrats, i think the better they are. >> maybe they'll hold a vote on it every country couple of months, raise high the roof beam. after the break in the wake of the boston bombings, new evidence that meshes are more willing to forgo some civil liberties in the name of fighting terrorism. while surveillance cameras become ubiquitous, things slip through the cracks. "time's" michael crowley joins us coming up on "now." [ male announcer ] this is kevin.

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surviving suspect, dzhokhar tsarnaev told investigators that he and his brother originally planned to detonate their devices on the fourth of july. but early completion of the bombs led them to accelerate the dates. the two men revealed that they had at one time considered suicide bombings before ultimately deciding to build pressure cooker bombs. in addition to reading al qaeda's "inspire" magazine, they watched the internet sermons of

anwar al al maliki. killed in yemen. another debate is taking place in yemen over what should be done to prevent infringement on our privacy. a topic addressed on tuesday. >> one of the dangers we face are self-radicalized individuals who are here in the united states. what more can we do on that threat, that is looming on the horizon is the work that can be done in terms of detection, but all of this has to be done in the context of our laws, due process. >> benjamin frank lynn's observation that those who would give up their liberty for security deserve neither has never been more relevant than in today's post patriot act world of wiretaps and expanded surveillance. even the director of national intelligence, james clapper, admitted that the increased surveillance forces uncomfortable questions about privacy. in an interview with the

"washington post," clapper was candid -- there are restrictions on how intrusive we can be in monitoring u.s. citizens. does the public want us to be more intrusive in monitoring their internet activity? listening to their cell phone calls, monitoring their travel overseas? do you want us to do this to you? with the white house, homeland security committee due to hold its first congressional committee hearing on attacks, the debate is likely to intensify, the obama administration's response to home-grown jihadism homeland insecurity. when the administration issued its new fbi guidelines in 2011 it expanded many of the bureau's terrorist-hunting power, it cranked others back. the obama team's core strategy for rooting out home-grown muslim extremists was to gain the trust of muslim communities. cranking back certain security measures would seem to be in line with american sentiment. a new poll finds that 49% of the country is unwilling to give up civil liberties to curb

terrorism. americans have shown themselves more willing to accept security cameras in public spaces but less inclined to accept expanded monitoring of their phone and email conversations. had begs the question -- what can be done to protect america while at the same time protecting american freedoms? joining us now is michael crowley, "time" magazine's deputy washington bureau chief. here to discuss the new issue of "time," "homeland insecurity." thank you for joining us. this is sort of the question, not jus just of the moment, but really kind of the 21st century. and i will do that gimmicky thing on the show, which is to quote you to you and read an excerpt from the piece where it is written the harder question raised by the tsarnaev case is how deep into his private life investigators would have had to go in order to piece together the brothers' plot. america redrew the boundaries between privacy and security in the years after 9/11. rather than create a powerful new domestic intelligence agency, the u.s. decided to give the fbi increased powers. allowing for action even on the basis of thin evidence. with the goal of breaking up

terrorist plots before their execution, it was a little-noticed but significant change in the way the fbi did business. given that, that the fbi can act on rather thin evidence, could they have actually done anything in this particular plot? >> it's really not clear that they could have. we do have a very forward-leaning fbi now and those guidelines were part of a philosophy that said, they should be able to act again thin evidence, tips, suspicions, that would not have cleared the bar previously, not to wait and get people in the middle of doing something or to find out what they did afterwards, but to break up terror plots before they happened, that was the new mission. even the powers that the fbi have in this case probably wouldn't have been adequate. but for the most aggressive pursuit of what they were able to do. even in that case i'm not sure they would have been able to figure out what was going on. i really think you would have had to have another level where you were monitoring for instance, his internet activity, you saw it on his youtube page. he with a posting links to

radical preachers and possibly extremely controversial, but if you had had somebody maybe in his mosque or in the religious community there, he stood up in the mosque twice and challenged his imam who he thought was too moderate. and what veteran counterterror experts will tell you that's a classic sign of radicalization. when someone starts challenging the preacher in the mosque for being a little bit soft. >> let's talk about the muslim community. because there's, you also talk about what the nypd has done to sort of monitor muslim communities, that's been very controversial. but that seems like, involving itself with the muslim community. and sort of from the grassroots on up, seems to be a new strategy. has that worked? i mean given the fact that he did come out in the middle of a sermon, if you will against the imam, do we know how active that mosque has been in this investigation? >> well, as i understand, the mosque has spoken to the fbi after the fact. the mosque said in a statement that tamerlan and i believe his

brother did come to the mosque at some point. i'm not sure. but he never really acted out, if he did they were aware of the episodes of tamerlan. but they say he never threatened violence or talked about violence and that he had, they would have contacted the fbi immediately. that's what they say now after the fact. they are talking to the fbi there has been surveillance on mosques around the country. and law enforcement has gotten into a lot of trouble for this. the new york police department, the fbi was sued. but you can infiltrate mosques. part of what those guidelines that we report on do, we were the first to add some detail to some prior reporting about them. is that you now need, if you're an fbi agent, special new approval to go into a place of worship or to go undercover in a place of worship. so to your original point. >> that's because of backlash about the surveillance? >> it appears to be because there was backlash and the administration promoted a philosophy of working with these communities. if you see something, say something. if you hear something, say something was the attitude. that can work. we mentioned in our story a plot

in oregon if 2010, a lot of people don't remember, a guy wanted to blow up a car at a christmas tree lighting ceremony in portland, oregon. the feds were tipped off by his father in that case who said this kid is getting interested in jihad, talking about the wars overseas. that kind of tip can lead to breaking up these kinds of plots. so the administration really wants that line of communication. >> you know, sam, it's, an unanswerable question, a, the gray area that leads someone do self radicalize or radicalize. but also the needle in the haystack nature of terrorism in the 21st century. there's been polling about what americans are comfortable with and not comfortable with. 49%. country is not willing to trade liberties for security. but at the same time there's an increase in support for surveillance cameras and i think that's probably in no small part due to the fact that these guys look to have been caught because of the surveillance cameras and at the same time there's a decrease in support for cell phone and email monitoring. it would seem to me that some kind of electronic trail on the internet or otherwise could have

been one method of pursuit for tamerlan and dzhokhar tsarnaev. >> the thing that i think is almost more important than what the public wants is what the policy-makers want. and i think they are much more comfortable getting back to invading people's private lives than they are for missing the next attack. they would rather risk the former, not the latter. so the question becomes, where is the balance, right if at ha point do we say enough's enough? i don't think we've reached it yet. i think we probably are in the near future probably going to ramp up the type of surveillance we do. especially in cities. and you know, i also think that we're probably going to enter a period of our time where we're much more like israel. where we become sort of accustomed to this type of you know, i don't want to call it boston minor. where we're accustomed to regular aoccurrences of terrorist activity that aren't maybe to the level of 9/11, but they happen regularly and we get more -- comfortable with it to say, at least -- >> more inurred to it.

>> to some degree it's an acceptance of this and at the same time -- i wonder, josh, as michael notes there was no department of homeland security set up after this, right? and just the death toll for boston is not the same as it was over 9/11 and to some degree, i think that speaks to sam's point about us getting more used to terrorism. but at the same time, the scope that we, we increasingly understand that the methods of capture or surveillance may not, may not work. maybe it's not even about, i mean it's not even about cell phones or email or security cameras. it is something more intangible about being involved with communities or i mean -- it's, it's -- it's very hard to pinpoint. >> i think that's right. i think at some level americans realize that there just isn't a level of security we can ratchet up to that's going to make the system fail-safe. i think another point to remember is until this attack there really hadn't been a successful large-scale terrorist attack in the united states since 9/11. a lot of these civil liberties

issues tended to be wrapped up in the debate about should google be tracking your email. it seemed to be more personal and the quote-unquote bad guys were advertisers who wanted to do things, not people who wanted to kill you. i can see those attitudes shifting in the direction of fewer civil liberties and a heavier security state. >> we know we have a news update that the dhs, the department of homeland secured says it's reforming the student visa system to insure that border officials have real-time updates on all relevant student visa information. where they see a hole as evidenced by this case, they're trying to plug it. the ad hoc nature of this, we're going to set off the bombs in july, they were going to do suicide bombings, it's almost impossible to predict -- >> they were going to go to new york after setting off the bombs on the marathon. if not for this guy leaving the car, who knows what would have happened. >> it's unclear, were they going there to do more damage or going there to party? it seems like -- >> or both. >> which seems to be their

modus operandi. >> there was an organized jihad and radicalized people coming over here and now there's self-radicalization, punk kids, one was a kid, one was a grown man doing some sort of science experiment almost in their kitchen. >> obviously a very lethal and horrible and tragic science experiment. but i mean nia has a point here. is that you look at the photo of the kids and the three potential accomplices and they look like kids. >> they do. >> you hear about the plotting and the planning. it's just like how would you even begin to catch that? it seems to by the hair of their chinny-chin chin. >> there are three options, one you have a big brother police state where all our internet activity is monitored. if you post a video on youtube linking to a radical cleric, a sign lights up in the homeland security department. that's one. another one is that we educate people and we, and the government gets better at getting information from communities. and you know, incidentally, think there are a lot of

parallels here to the mass shooter phenomenon. someone is starting to display a pattern of behavior. we've seen several times that leads potentially in a certain direction and people have to be aware that that's what they're seeing and speak up. now that's also very delicate. you don't want to get someone this trouble, kind of on a bad hunch. the third scenario is this is a fact of life. i often say when i talk about this, we tolerate a lot of death on our highways, we could save a lot of lives if we lowered speed limits below a certain level and we've decided as a society, we're willing to take a certain risk on our highways, we want to drive fast, and it's inconvenience to drive slow. and there's death and destruction. that's probably where we're headed. >> there was an explosion in west texas where more people died. we've grown accustomed to that. we've moved along, we're not having new policies implemented. >> i would argue we should be focused on the after-effects of that and have regulatory reform and safety. >> that's to michael's point is we've grown accustomed to one thing, we're still very alarmed

by another. >> and the tradeoff between liberty and security. michael crowley, the new cover of "time" is "homeland insecurity." >> thank you so much. coming up, president obama defends his decision, his press secretary avoids comment on the topic. we'll discuss the white house's back-up plan for plan b, just ahead. we've all had those moments.

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clusters of pustules, pimples. i had this shingle rash right next to my spine. the soreness was excruciating. it was impossible to even think about dancing. when you're dancing, your partner is holding you. so, his hand would have been right in the spot that i had the shingles. no tango. no rhumba. you can't be touched. for more of the inside story, visit shinglesinfo.com president obama bolstered his undermined access to emergency contraception, we'll discuss the administration's mixed messaging when nancy north rupp of the center for reproductive rights joins us next on "now."

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talk to an allstate agent. a spring sees than started out strong for women's health when it came to access for contraception is ending on a confusing note as the fight continues over access to the morning after pill. known as plan b. what is plan b? and is it dangerous? back in 2011, the fda gave the green light on universal access to plan b. there is adequate and reasonable well-supported and science-based evidence that plan b one step is safe and effective and should be approved for nonprescription use for all females of child-bearing potential. but immediately after this, health and human services secretary, kathleen sebelius overruled the fda, saying that the pill should only be available over the counter to women 17 and older. her boss, seemed to agree with the decision. >> the reason kathleen made this

decision, was she could not be confident that a 10-year-old or an 11-year-old going to a drug store, should be able, alongside bubblegum or batteries, be able to buy a medication that potentially if not used properly, could end up having an adverse effect. >> that wasn't the end of the fight. last month a federal judge in new york rebuked the white house and ordered the fda to make plan b available over the counter to women of all ages. women's health groups found themselves in a weird and unfamiliar land, calling foul on the obama administration, while praising a judge appointed by ronald reagan as a champion for reproductive rights. that wasn't the end of the fight, either. this week the fda reversed its original position on universal access, and announced that it would keep the age limits in place for plan b. although it will lower the age of access from 17 to 15.

once again, the president seemed to agree with the decision. >> i'm very comfortable with the decision they've made right now, based on solid, scientific evidence. for girls 15 and older. >> but, that is still not the end of this fight. remember that pesky reagan-appointed judge who gave the obama white house the what for? this week, the justice department announced an appeal of his ruling, claiming that the judge did not have the judicial authority to order the fda to take a specific action. even though the obama administration itself overruled the fda just last year. for their part, justice department officials maintain the white house was not involved in this decision. joining us now is nancy northrop, president of the center for reproductive rights. we had to rewrite that script several times because it was so confusing about what was happening. in the end it seals like the white house is playing politics on this. >> well that's right.

for eight years the senate for reproductive rights has been suing the fda to have emergency contraception over the counter for all women. we won a tremendous decision less than a month ago and in that decision, judge kormen said, the obama administration and the bush administration had played politics with this issue and here we are, less than a month later, we've got this new ruling on 15-year-olds and still the fda isn't doing what its own scientists said it should, safe and effective, over-the-counter, no restrictions, all women. >> knnia, this seems to be fair hypocritical and transparent. given that the president was just at planned parenthood talking about reproductive freedoms, he sort of almost suggested two days ago when he agreed with the limitation on age limits, that the science was there. the science hasn't changed. the science has been the same science from the beginning. >> he had the weird phrase, i agree with the decision right now and maybe another decision comes down he would agree with that one, too. it's hard to know as you said,

it's very confusing. i mean ultimately what this is about is there is discomfort on the part of the president, on the part of maybe a lot of women, a lot of moms, a lot of dads who have 12-year-old daughters, i think there is some discomfort with the spector of them going to cvs and getting plan b. and you know, emergency contraception, that seems to be what's going on in terms of the politics and sort of tapping into what i think is a legitimate discomfort. >> and just do play politics on this, play "hardball," not to paraphrase chris matthews, but the idea of the contraception mandate, or the white house position on contraception mandate seem to be fairly controversial and this almost seemed to be a doffing of the hat to social conservative who is might take issue with the contraception mandate in the affordable care act and here is the president being more quote-unquote conservative. sometimes you see obama as father in chief and this seems to be one where you could imagine the malia and sasha angle. >> you saw physical discomfort

talking about it's pretty unusual for him. the whole issue, there's not a big controversy about contraception in america, it's not a 50/50 issue and the whole cs thing? have you been to a cvs thing? you can get all sorts of stuff there. you can get liquor there, you can get various marital aids of all sorts. >> or nonmarital aids. >> nancy, the notion that somehow this has adverse effects, you look at the adverse effects of ibuprofen versus plan b, i side effects of plan b are pretty horrifying and people take a lot of ibuprofen in this country. it seems to be a red herring just to scare people away from what the fda says is a very safe bill. >> and the judge made that point in his decision, less than a month ago. he said this isn't about an 11-year-old, this is about having a standard scientific standard about what's safe and effective. and i think what you know, you talked about this discomfort issue, people have to realize parents of course need to be

engaged with their kids about any over-the-counter medications. if your kid is taking tylenol, because they've got a hangover, you need to know and talk about the risky behaviors there. so it's with all over-the-counter medications, of course you want to be in discussions with your kids, but the fda's job is not to be the mom and dad, their job is what's safe and effective for all ages. this is a very, very safe drug. >> i think the other part of this is that it's after, right? and there's this idea that contraception, condoms seem sort of more benign because it's before. and there's been a lottor sort of i think fear-mongering and messaging around pills that are taken after intercourse, and the notion that somehow they are aborted and i think that's what potentially scares people about this issue. saying you agree with that? >> absolutely. obviously there are people in society who are uncomfortable with sex and they're more uncomfortable with sex when it involves teenagers and i think that your point is a valid one. if this was just selling

condoms, i think people would be a lot more comfortable with that. one thing i would add, because everyone else was talking about this with much more authority an i am. 15 is such an arbitrary number. why not 14 1/2? there's no science behind the choosing of 15, it's just a politically convenient number that makes people feel better than if it were 13. >> the other thing they're doing is requiring i.d.s for this, right, nancy. that's an issue if you're 15, you don't necessarily have an i.d., you don't have a driver's license, that raises the age to 16 or 17. >> well and every woman going in needs to have an i.d. it doesn't matter what age you are. you've got to pull out some kind of i.d. and it also limits where it can be sold. over-the-counter drugs can be sold in grocery stores or convenience stores. and that's what the fda originally was going to approve. but now all of a sudden, it's pulled back just to places that also have a pharmacy counter. >> yes. >> can i ask in terms of how the administration has handled this, which seems to be in a fairly bungled fashion, if you just

look at all the tape and the various positions they've taken. you know, what do women's reproductive rights groups think about this? what has your communication with the administration on this issue been like? >> well, women's reproductive rights group want what is both right for public health and right for women. which is that a drug that is extremely safe and can be used without a prescription be available and widely available. what we have to remember is this is emergency contraception. it is most effective when used within the sooner the better. but certainly within 72 hours, 24 is even better, six is even better. you want to be able to get it when you need it, that's why it's an emergency back-up. we know what's right for women is to have it available when they need it. >> and it's also worth driving home the fact that research shows that teens are as likely as adults to use the contraception correctly. so the idea of adverse effects may be mitigated there. and that access to birth control does not cause young people to become more sexually active.

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it's like -- well there is an alternative. you could just not be a bunch of squishes. >> well we'll look at squishes and cruz's presidential aspirations, coming up next. alec, for this mission i upgraded your smart phone. ♪ right. but the most important feature of all is... the capital one purchase eraser. i can redeem the double miles i earned with my venture card to erase recent travel purchases. and with a few clicks, this mission never happened. uh, what's this button do? [ electricity zaps ] ♪ you requested backup? yes. yes i did. what's in your wallet? i'm also a survivor of ovarian a writand uterine cancers. yes i did.

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if you are going to be the president of the united states, you have to be born in this country. he doesn't have a birth certificate. now he may have one, but there's something on that birth certificate -- it may be religion. maybe it says he's a muslim, i don't know. >> we believe that the certificate presented to the american public by the white house, is a forgery. >> no one has ever asked to see my birth certificate. they know that this is the place we were born and raised. >> if that's what the right had to say about someone who was

actually born in this country, what will they say about a foreign-born first-term senator with his sights on the oval office? >> are you eligible to run for president, you were born in canada? >> oh, canada! boom, boom, boom! our beloved -- texas freedom fighter is nothing but a dirty syrup guzzler! what a terrible twist, eh? >> a "national review" reported wednesday that ted cruz, the tea party idealogue who has been in congress for four months has his eyes on the white house. according to an unnamed republican insider, if you don't think this is real, you're not paying attention. ambition aside, there remains the question of constitutionality. cruz was born in calgary, that's in canada, to a mother who is an american citizen. so does he pass the natural-born

citizen qualification for president. the "national journal" points out the definition of what it means to be a natural-born citizen has never been decided in the courts and the constitution doesn't explain exactly what it means. ben, i for one am shocked. >> the funny thing is for some reason the obama campaign last year did not want to make the case. even if he was born in kenya, we're fine. so this didn't really come up but this is totally unsettled. george romney, mitt's father was born in mexico. john mccain -- >> i think the general theory among lawyers if this came up the courts would find a way to not rule on it. they would say nobody has standing. who would sue and say they were harmed by this. >> in post-election? >> what court would want to come anywhere near this i think the theory is that anybody the public elects will be fine. >> i think john mccain, i'm looking at my cards, was born in the panama canal zone. he -- which is not the united

states. and this question didn't come up at all. >> there are no americans in the u.s. senate, it's weird. >> they're all canadians. >> josh, does the birther movement, this is really ridiculous question, but -- >> please, direct did my way. >> the birther movement isn't going to say boo if ted cruz wants to run for president. >> because the birther movements are a bunch of whack jobs on the right, not the left. that's ted cruz's base. >> there are whack jobs on the left. >> there are. but not that have a birther issue. >> let's also be clear. the birther movement, there's a distinct strain of racism and otherness that floats floed through the birther movement, nia. >> that's right. and you know it's hard to think thaw know this kind of thing would be on the left, what they were challenging him. i think he's going to make some waves, he, i mean he'll probably run for president, i think if i'm rubio, i'm a little nervous. he strikes me, ted cruz, as a hispanic huckabee. i feel like he could be a

televangelist. he went to princeton, harvard, he's like a debate champion. >> he's a law clerk. >> squish comments aside, the question -- there is the question is if he ran, how would he do, sam? "the wall street journal" says the conservatives have a hard theory about '08 and 12. george w. bush ran as a center right candidate twice and passed bills. the people who back cruz believe he could alter this paradigm. >> i can't believe we are talking about the presidential possibility for cruz. if there was a legal defense for him, with respect to citizenship, i can imagine democrats playing big bucks to defend it. >> because he moves everybody to the right? >> the guy is a little bit far off from the center. >> and there are reasons to run other than winning. to move the party, to raise your row file. >> walk in the footsteps of

herman cain and michele bachma n bachmann. >> i've always thought he was a sleeper agent for rand paul. he could make him look a little more mainstream. >> i just, i love canada, but can really someone a legionens to the mounties or you know, the -- can we trust -- they're such good-natured people to our north. i don't want to impugn their reputations. you pause. >> that's it for the show. i've put my foot in my mouth enough for this hour. thank you to josh, nia, sam and ben, see you on monday when i'm joined by ryan grimm, joy reid, "the new york times" annie lowry and singer-songwriter, lisa loeb. until then, follow us on twitter. "andrea mitchell reports" is coming up next.

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right now on "andrea mitchell reports" -- fourth of july terror plot? investigators say dzhokhar tsarnaev has told them that the brothers had planned to attack on independence day. so why did they change plans? we'll have the latest from pete williams. western firestorm, thousands of homes are in the line of fire as an earlier-than-expected wildfire powered by fierce santa ana winds is tearing across southern california. flashpoint syria, nbc's richard engel talks exclusively with the leader of syria's rebel forces. >> you said the regime used chemical weapons at least four times? >> yes. >> what kind of weapons? southern exposure -- president obama talks to students in mexico city about immigration reform. and the illegal guns from the u.s. wreaking havoc on their side of the border. >> i will continue to do everything in my power to pass common-sense reforms that keep guns out of the hands of

criminals and dangerous people, that can save lives here in mexico and back home in the united states. it's the right thing to do. this is the nra kicks off its annual convention in texas with a pledge to keep fighting background checks. >> one. things we don't do is we don't mistake battles for wars. it was a victory in a battle. but the war continues. this is in essence, a family gathering for believers in the second amendment. >> and vice president joe biden joining secretary of state john kerry at the state department to pay tribute to diplomats killed in the line of duty. >> i wish we didn't need a wall like this. i wish i could tell all of you and all of you brilliant young state department personnel up there, i wish i could tell you we're not going to add any more names. kay christopher